An online “hint” from Ancestry.com led me to a tree that referenced John Neil and Mary Anne Chrystal and their children. This link provided information that I did not already have and this led me to research the children of John and Mary anne a bit more. The findings of my research are covered in separate posts for each child that I had significant new information about. These are in bold in the table of all their children below.

Name	Born
Mary Ann Neil	16 Jul 1881
Sarah Neil	10 Sep 1883
Elizabeth Neil	11 Feb 1886
Agnes Neil	26 Mar 1888
John Neil	1 Jun 1890
Timothy Chrystal Neil	13 Jan 1893
Elizabeth Chrystal Neil	25 Jun 1895
Susan Logan Neil	12 Oct 1897
Charles Neil	30 Apr 1899
Isabella Neil	12-Jul-1901

I had already discovered some vital facts for several of their children including Mary Ann (b 1881), Sarah (b 1883) and Elisabeth (b 1886). But when it came to Agnes (b1888) I was stumped and could not find out any more about her. On my own web site I had written:

“We went on to look for a marriage of an Agnes Neil between 1909 to 1918, when she would have been aged between 21 and 30 but could not find any obviously likely entry – that is to say no entry for the usual parishes we might expect for the family. We also looked for the death of an Agnes Neil between 1901 when we know she was alive (Census for 21 Salisbury Street) and 1969 when she would have been eighty one years old but we could not find a suitable entry here either. A reasonable conclusion might be that she was one of the Agnes Neil marriages we saw from the earlier search but as we do not know what parish to look at we stopped here.”

However, this hint put me back on track with Agnes as it suggested a date and place of death that allowed me to find her death registration in which a husband is mentioned. Although my research follower a circuitous path, this is the order of events I discovered.

Agnes Neil

NOTE THAT THIS BLOG POST WAS WRITTEN BEFORE I DISCOVERED A CIVIL MARRIAGE FOR AGNES WHICH CLEARED UP A LOT OF ISSUES. SHE ACTUALLY MARRIED WILLIAM GOW YOUNG ON 1 JAN 1913. I have left it unedited as it shows how I researched the person. The full story as I now know it can he read in the section on Agnes Neil is the sub-page of this site here

Marriage of Agnes Neil to William Gow Young

Naturally I looked for the marriage of Agnes to William Gow Young. I initially looked at Find My Past and found a marriage entry in the “Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Marriages, Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland” in the parish of St Mary, Our Lady of Victories, Dundee.

On 25 Nov 1933 Agnes Neil married William Gow Young. The witnesses were Mary Masterson and Mary Young. The record is here and I filed this document as N334.jpg. It was interesting to see that the couple married in the Catholic faith but there wasn’t much more information there. Curiously, nearly all the marriages recorded the names of the parents of the married couple but there is a blank space for this entry.

I searched for the marriage in the statutory register indexes on Scotland’s People and this produced a different story. The index to the statutory marriage registrations gave a date of 1913 for the marriage.

The registration recorded that the marriage took place on 1 January 1913 at 35 Nelson Street, Dundee according to the Forms of the Baptist Church. William G Young (??) Hopperman (bachelor) aged 22 of 35 Nelson Street, the son of William Gow Young, General Labourer and Ann Young (??) Duncan M.S. Millar Married Agnes Neill, Jute Preparer (spinster), aged 24 of 43 Main Street, Dundee. She was the daughter of John Neil, Carter (Dec) and Mary Ann Neill M.S. Chrystal. It was signed by George M Sheppey Pastor (???) Baptist Church. The witnesses were James Ross and Maggie Murphy. The marriage was registered 2 January 1913 at Dundee.

I filed this as N341.jpg and the original is at Scotland’s People here

How Agnes got to end up in Dundee is not known though Dundee became an appealing prospect for work as some industries went into decline in Glasgow and the Jute industry, centred around Dundee, boomed. This registration notes that her father was dead; in fact he died 30 December 1911.

It is not clear why Agnes and William were married again. The statutory registration says that they were married in the Baptist faith in 1913 and in the Catholic faith in 1933.

Children of Agnes Neill and William Gow Young

Whilst looking for a death for William a search on the Scotland’s People site produced the following:

Surname Forename Age at death Mother’s Maiden Name Gender Year Ref RD Name

YOUNG WILLIAM GOW 78 M 1969 282 / 2 / 32 Dundee East and West

YOUNG WILLIAM GOW 72 WILKIE M 1926 282 / 3 / 415 St Andrew (Dundee)

YOUNG WILLIAM GOW 79 M 1957 685 / 5 / 284 George Square

YOUNG WILLIAM GOW 2 LANGLANDS M 1882 282 / 1 / 295 St Peter

YOUNG WILLIAMINA GOW 91 NEILL F 2008 351 / 637 Dundee

What jumped out at me first was the last entry for Williamina Gow Young who died in Dundee aged 91 (born c 1917) with a mother with a maiden name of Neill.

I searched Find My Past and found a baptismal entry for Williamina Gow Young in the “Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms, Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland” in the parish of St Mary, Our Lady of Victories, Dundee. This was where Agnes’s marriage was recorded. In the same registers I also found the birth of an earlier daughter.

Birth of Margaret Young 1914

I looked for other children at Find My Past and came across an earlier birth – of Margaret Young on 6 Sep 1914. She was baptised at St Mary, Our Lady of Victories (RC), Dundee on 23 Jul 1914. Her father is given as William Young and her mother as Agnes Neill. The address given is 69 Hilltown. The sponsor is Margaret Cunningham. A note says Pater Prot. There is also a later handwritten addition that says “married to Joseph H. Batchelor June 22 1935”

I filed the image of this birth as N337.jpg and the original image can be found here.

Note that the baptism (23 Jul 1914) appears to come before the birth (6 Sep 1914) . The statutory record says

YOUNG • MARGARET • NEILL • F • 1913 • 282 / 4 / 1199 • St Andrew (Dundee)

So it is more likely that the dates are mixed up and she was born 23 July 1913. The image can be viewed but it is a bit of an outlier to be concerned with clearing it up exactly

Marriage of Margaret Young to Joseph Hood Batchelor 22 Jun 1939.

I looked up the marriage in Find My Past and it was also recorded at St Mary, Our Lady of Victories (RC), Dundee on 22 Jun 1939. On that day Margaret Young daughter of William Gow Young and Agnes Neill married Joseph Hood Batchelor son of William Batchelor and Isabella Brown. Witnesses were James Lettuce and Mary Young. No address is given.

Birth of Williamina Young 1917

Williamina Young was born 14 Jul 1917 and baptised 25 Jul 1917 at St Mary, Our Lady of Victories, Dundee (RC). She was the daughter of William Young and Agnes Neill. The address given is 21 Nelson Street, The sponsor was Lizzie Sturrs. There is a note in red in the right page margin that reads M.R26/1942. I recorded this record image as N335.jpg

So, this gives us the interesting situation that Williamina was born when her mother, Agnes Neill, was aged 29 although she appears not to have married Williamina’s father, William Gow Young until she was 45 years old and the marriage only lasted five years before she died in 1938.

Marriage of Williamina Young to Allan Farrell 9 Jun 1942.

As for Williamina, she married on 9 Jun 1942 in the same parish as her mother had married , St Mary, Our Lady of Victories (RC), Dundee. She married Allan Farrell. Her parents were given as Agnes Neill and William Young. His parents are given as Andrew Farrell Mary Ann Inglis. Witnesses were Allan Watson and Margaret Batchelor.

I filed the image of this marriage as N336.jpg and the original image can be found here.

Death of Agnes Neill or Young

As mentioned above, our locating of Agnes after the 1901 census was a result of a tree that was hinted at online (the family tree of Lisa Cooper) that suggested that she died 15 Jan 1938 Dundee, Angus, Scotland. I looked up deaths in Scotland’s People and there were only a couple of entries (actually referring to the same person by married and maiden name).

This showed that Agnes was actually “married to William Gow Young, Dredger Hopperman. She died at 2am on 15th January 1938, aged 49 years, at Kings Cross Hospital. Her usual residence was 10 Carnegie Street Dundee. Her father was John Neil, Carter (deceased) and Mary Ann Neil ms Chrystal (deceased). The causes of death were given as Typhoid Fever, Bilateral Broncho Pnuemonia and Septic Parotitis. W Burns Clark MB CLB certified the death and the informant was William Gow Young, widower, of 10 Carnegie Street, a Dredger Hopperman. The death was registered 15th January 1938 at Dundee.

I filed this death registration as N333.jpg

During my research I found that William Gow Young has remarried. William’s second marriage took place two years after the death of his first wife, Agnes Neill.

Second Marriage of William Gow Young 22 Jun 1940

I found this marriage on the Find My Past web site in the parish of St Patrick (RC), Dundee. William Gow Young married Margaret Logan on 22 Jun 1940. His parents are given as William Gow Young and Anne Miller. Margaret Logan Meachan’s parents are given as Peter Logan and Mary Smith. The witnesses were James McLaren and Robina Husson. Under his name is written St Pat’s 1940 and under her name Cathedral 25 May 1887.

This document was archived as N339.jpg and can be found at Find My Past here.

I decided to look for the civil registration of this marriage to see if there were more hints about the family group. It contained the following information:

On 22 June 1940 at St. Patrick’s Church, Dundee William Gow Young, aged 50, occupation (???) Hopperman, a widower residing at 11 Harriet Street, Dundee and the son of William Gow Young, General Labourer (Deceased) and Ann Young, previously Duncan M.S. Miller married, after Banns according to the Forms of the Roman Catholic Church, to Margaret Logan Meachan, aged 53, a Jute Spinner, widow, residing at 14 Dura Street, Dundee and the daughter of Peter Logan, Boilermaker’s Labourer (Deceased) and Mary Logan M.S. Smith (Deceased). The witnesses were James McClaren of 45 Nelson Street Dundee and Robina Hussen of 75 Ann Street, Dundee. The marriage was registered on 24 June 1940 at Dundee.

This document is filed under N340.jpg and the original on Scotland’s People is here.

The above registration shows that Margaret Logan had been married before and this is likely to have been to Charles Meachen who died in 1939 See here for a useful link at Scotland’s People. The same query for deaths of Charles Meachens throws up a child of that name who died in 1912, aged 1, who had a mother with the maiden name of Logan. I found a likely marriage for Charles Meachen and Margaret Logan

MEACHEN	CHARLES	LOGAN	MARGARET	1906	282 / 4 / 246	St Andrew (Dundee)

Death for William Gow Young 9 Jan 1969

I found a statutory death registration for William Gow Young on Scotland’s People. He died 9 Jan 1969, aged 78 years at Ashludie Hospital, Monifieth, Dundee at 5h 35pm. The casuse of death is given as 1a) Cardio-respiratory failure and 1b) Chronic Bronchitis and emphysema. His usual residence is given as 5 West Street, Dundee. His occupation is Hoppermasn (Harbour) (Retired) and his father is given as William Gow Young, general labourer (Deceased) and his mother is given as Ann Young previously Duncan ms Miller (Deceased).

His marriages are listed as:

1. Agnes Neill
2. Margaret Logan or Meacham

The death was registered on 10th January 1969 by his daughter, Mary Lettice (see above)

This document was archived as N338.jpg and can be found at Scotland’s People here.

It seemed logical to fill in the details of William’s second marriage which took place two years after the death of his first wife, Agnes Neill. There were other children of John Neil and May Anne Chrystal mentioned in the tree connected to the hint about Agnes and this led me to death of the next child, John Neil born 1 Jun 1890 at 31 Salisbury Street, Glasgow. I knew of his marriage to Mary McKenna in 1913 but did not know any of his children nor anything about his death. I used the date suggested in the tree: 26 Jul 1934 in Shettleston and I found this by searching on Scotland’s People.

The registration recorded that John Neil died at 11:45pm on 26 Jul 1934 at 9 Pitcairn Street, Glasgow. He was a Dock Labourer married to Mary McKenna. He was aged 43 years and was the son of John Neil Coal Merchant (deceased) and Mary Ann Neil ms Chrystal (deceased). He died of 1) Chronic Bronchitis and 2) Phthisis. The death was certified by A. M. Davidson MB ChB. The informant was his wife, M Neil Widow (present) and the death was recorded on 27 July 1934 at Glasgow.

I filed the certificate as N342 and the original can be found at Scotland’s People here.